Cycling in Darlington

[BP]

As a cyclist using my bike to get to and from work I am trying to do the Localmotion for which the town got millions of pounds, but as I battle my way down from Whinfield area along North road and then into town I find cyclists are second class to both cars along North road then pedestrians through the pedestrian heart. I dont agree with riding fast through the "Heart" but pedestrians must give some thought to cyclists and not look to remove us from the town. The council does not help with the Idea that they will give us cyclists 6 months then make their minds up as this gives the message to the pressure groups that they only have to keep complaining and they will get their way.
If cyclling is banned in the town centre are the council going to give the millions of pounds back and declare Darlington to be a cycling free zone ? if so then I will get my car back out and they can spend the money on extra roads

[lenny51]

I would not ride a bike in darlington if they paid me. However it is not allways other people's fault sometimes you would think cyclists were trying to get killed

[BP]

You see thats the whole piont....Its not easy to cycle in Darlo the question is WHY, if it is not easy most people will not do it, but what happens when the roads are full. Its grid lock already at 8-9am and 5-6 down North road I can do my house to the town in 10mins on my bike but upto 25min in the car. But am I risking my life ? well I am when turning right from north road to albert road then on to the "dog muck trail", sorry the riverside cyclepath.
I see again in the Echo someone is having a go at Cyclists are these the same people who come to the town in their cars ? clogging up the roads you should all be thanking cyclists for leaving one less car off the road.
Also please dont take everyone on a bike as cyclists young lads flying about on bikes are not cyclists, they will be trouble walking,biking,on the bus ect.

[miketually]

I agree with BP.

I too ride down North Road and riding on the road is a constant battle with cars, with almost no bike-specific measures in place. Even using the bus lanes is dangerous, as cars pull into it to turn left or to get past cars waiting to turn right, or it has vans and cars parked in it illegally.

The alternatives, such as the Riverside Path, are filthy and covered in dog mess and dog walkers.

If anyone here would like to support/join Darlington Cycle Campaign, please visit our website and use the 'Contact Us' link to send us an email.

Links aren't allowed so you'll have to decode our website address: bikedarlingtonDOTblogspotDOTcom, or Google for Bike darlington and we're one of the top results.

[DaveH]

car/motor vehicle drivers... they pay road fund licence and they pay insurance and they pay for an mot to be on the road.


cyclists... pay nothing to the upkeep of the roads, dont have to be insured but run the same if not a greated risk of injury to themselves or others due to them cycling where they should not e.g. pedestrian areas and yet they are not required to have insurance.

why should cyclists be given more consideration than legitimate road users ?

for the record i ride a motorcycle.

[miketually]

Cars are allowed to use the roads through licence, while bikes have a right to use them. Bikes [i]are[/i] legitimate road users.

The Vehicle Excise Duty paid each year by motorists does not go directly into funding the roads, but into the general taxation pot, just like Council Tax, Income Tax, VAT, etc all of which are paid by cyclists. Most cyclists are also car owners and therefore pay Vehicle Excise Duty.

Please find me one recorded instance of a cyclist injusring someone other than themselves, and I'll concede we maybe should have insurance. For the record, I have personal liability insurance as part of my home contents insurance.

[DaveH]

im assuming you mean the big giverment tax pot when you say 'general taxation pot'

i exluded on purpose council tax because i agree both types of commuter will pay it and those that dont wouldnt tax and mot a vehicle if they had one anyway.

tax on petrol/diesel and car tax pay for the roads of course money is magically spirited away for other purposes by the goverment because the make and break the rules as they like but as a general rule of thumb legitimate (paying) road users pay for the road (im excluding council tax again for the reason i stated above)

your point that people who have bike have a car and therefore pay the tax doesnt hold water either because the tax licences the vehicle for use on the road NOT the person who uses the vehicle... otherwise we could all stick a tax disk to the back of our heads and go drive what we wanted.


many times ive been walking into town (my preferred method as it helps keep me fit) past the static lines of traffic and ive seen cyclists banging wing mirrors and bumping into the sides of vehicles or failing that they take the the footpaths to terrorise oaps or assume right of way as they are travelling faster than a pedestrian. one of the main faults of the cuclist is the complete and utter lack of training.. even the woefully innept CBT required for a moped teaches the basics of road use,positioning and general rights of way...

you may well yourself be a shining light of manners and a responsible insured cyclist but you must admit its not hard to see why cyclists are so disliked by everyone who pays to be on the road, and by everyone else who likes to walk. if they were insured and trained in the use of the public road then maybe there would not be so many cycling fatalites... the roads are getting busier and something need to happen.




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[miketually]

You've seen cyclists doing those things 'many times'? I don't think you have; perhaps once or twice.

Many times I've been cycling into town (my preferred method as it helps keep me fit) past the static lines of traffic and I've seen cars ignoring red lights, using their mobile phone or assuming right of way as they are travelling faster than a cyclist. one of the main faults of the driver is the complete and utter lack of rememberance of their training.

On taxation, the average spend on cycling facilities in their country is 50p per person per year. I think I more than covered that on the VAT on brake pads.

[BP]

Many times from family and friends I hear this cyclists should pay road tax debate, well mile for mile I pay more than none cyclists as I also have a car and pay the same road fund Lic/ tax as you but as I only drive about 3k miles a year and cycle to work most days I HAVE paid for my little bit of the road, but hey dont thank me for the extra space one less car makes on the road, just still think you have the right to run me into the gutter.

PS I also have insurance through my house ins and my union.

[DaveH]

@mikeactually

yes ive seen it many time just because you count yourself in the 'real' cyclist section you i think are not including yourself with the bmx/mountain bike brigade that zip around the roads and pathways with compolete disregard for everyone but themselves.

but when it comes back to car drives you are quite happy to lump them all into one pot.. double standards maybe ?

how do you feel about motorcyclists then ? we dont use our mobiles,we dont throw rubbish out of our windows,we dont take up much space ?


@BP

unfortunatly for all of us your idea of 'ive payed more than enough so i have a irght' doesnt actually work. you pay for your car and that licences your car... if you are driveing that little i suggest a limited millage policy and a small economical diesel then you may feel a little betetr about the tax you have to spend.


.......

im pleased you both are insured and im sure that that is because you can see the sense in it and are responsible enough to realise its the right thing to do, so why not agree that ALL road users should be insured and taxed ? if you were then you would have a bigger legitimate say in what goes on on the road instead of getting marginalized.

also the roads are very very dangerous places populated by half asleep lorry drivers and sales reps etc etc... EVERYONE should be trained in thier use and the laws of using them.... im afraid cyclists get bad press because they are as a rule of thumb, completely untrained for the road. i know your going to come and say 'cycling lessongs this proficcency badges that' but they are not a legal reqirement and until they are this will continue.


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[miketually]

Dave, I can see we won't change your mind, but think a little about those BMXers and MTBers 'zipping' about on pavements and how many have [i]actually[/i] hurt anyone.

There were 4 kids killed by cars in Darlington last year, and 10 the year before that - I forget how many adults. There has only ever been one recorded accident involving a cyclist and a pedestrian in the whole of the town, which took place on Northgate, on the road.

Bikes are simply not dangerous and in almost any collision, whether it's with a car or a pedestrian, the cyclist is likely to come off worsst.

[BP]

I know this debate can go on and on with points scoring from the pro cycling and anti cycling brigade, BUT just to pick up on your points, firstly you and others say cyclists don't pay for the upkeep of the roads...my point was I do and have to pay the same as you cos I own a car but unlike your in comments in the real world you cant get any reduction for limited milage use (wish you could) you only get reductions for the "greenness" of your car. Also not all people on bikes are cyclists, by that I mean kids flying about on BMXs will be trouble on a bike, on the bus, with a football etc. Its like calling for all motorcyclist to be banned because of the same youths riding about on minimotos. These kids should be tackled for their individual wrong doing and not all lumped in with cyclists.

You and others will no doubt come back with more anti-cyclists stuff, cyclist's will no doubt be banned from the pedestrian heart as we are in a very small minority in this town and as most people don't cycle but do walk if you do a survey and ask 100 people if cycling should be banned from the "heart" then 90% will say yes because it doesn't affect them add a few scare storeys of blind people being afraid to enter the pedestrians heart and the figure will go up to 99%, then splashed across the Echo " 99% of people don't want cycling in the heart blur..blur etc..etc.". when in reality as Mike says cyclists rarely do damage to anyone or anything and are a force for good to the environment and grid-locked Darlington as a whole...but there again don't thanks us.

[miketually]

If bikes are banned from the town centre, irresponsible bike riders will simply ignore then ban while responsible cyclists are forced onto the inner ring road. Pedestrians will be no safer, but cyclists lives will be endangered.

A banning of bikes in the Pedestrian Heart would be difficult, if not impossible, to enforce. Firstly, it goes against current government guidance so without substantial evidence of a problem bikes will not be banned. I believe that it should be proved that the danger to pedestrians if bikes are present would outweigh the danger to cyclists if they are banned.

(The £30 fixed-penalty notice for riding on pavements cannot be enforced in a pedestrianised area, as it only applies to pavements running alongside a highway...)

If bikes are banned, expect to see me riding very slowly around the ring road, taking up a whole lane - the only safe way to ride on the ring road.

BP, have you joined the Cycle Campaign?

[DaveH]

Ill agree this will go on and on and ill agree that im tarring you with the same brush as everyone who rides a pushbike.

as per the reduction im reffering to your insurance (i have a limited millage one on the bike i use at the weekend as i dont do many miles on it and use it in the nice weather to go to scotland and the lakes)

my own personally dislike of cyclists (and by cyclist in this sense im reffering to the lycra clad 3mm wide tyre 'tour de plank' brigade) stems from 2 distinct incidents early in my own bike (motorcycle) riding career.

1.. bumbling along at a nice 60mph taking in the sceenery as it was a lovely sunny day on the way up the 68 to meet some mates for a ride over the tops... come round a corner and there is a pair or cyclists riding 2 side by side taking up the whole lane doing barely 5 mph ... other vehicles coming the other way left me with no option but to ride between them. when i looked over my shoulder one was in the ditch... better that than have 250kg of motorcycle up his back end ! or car even.

2... on the back road from staindrop to b'castle a wole 'herd' of these lycra nutters taking up Both sides of the road.. slowed down like a nice boy as i saw them from a way away but did they move to get out of the way to let me through ? not a bit of it i got fithly looks instead so i had to force my was through almost physically. it was obviously a cycling club of some sort and i would have thought they would have shown more road sense.

so forgive me if im jaded toward people who take up more roadspace than me and pay nothing for it.

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[miketually]

It's a good job there wasn't a broken down car or some other obstruction in the road when you went round the corner in the first incident...