Cycling in Darlington

[dave]

Ho ho ho DaveH, if you'd hit them you'd have been done for dangerous driving, driving without due care and attention (looking at the scenery rather than the road) and basically anything else they could charge you with (if you were still alive). One thing i've learned about motorcyclists is they think they own the road and don't allow any margin of error for anyone else doing unexpected things, or hazards, especially in the countryside.

Your jaded attitude to who pays for the roads does not allow you to compromise anyone elses safety on them, or intimidate people who you consider to be lower down the food chain than yourself.
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[DaveH]

true, ill agree to what you say there on that point miketually.

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[Tricky]

I am one of the many commuting cyclists who now uses the Inner Ring Road on a daily basis to get to and from work. I didn't think it was too bad at first but I have had 2 very near misses this week. One of my work colleagues wasn't so lucky tonight. Broken collarbone, cuts and bruises. And he isn't a lycra hooligan or a young BMXer tearing up and down the pavements shouting abuse at everyone. He is the sort of person that doesn't deserve to get knocked off. He rides in a sensible fashion, lights on his bike and a big day-glo safety jacket that you can see half a mile away.

[jabdc5]

I walk from my home along Yarm Road into town every time, I never use the car to go into town. On my walk I have to dodge several cyclists speeding along the footpaths. Yes I have to dodge them as they will not ride around me or slow down. The worst spot is around Parkgate where they hurtle down the bank approaching from behind you at great speed. Further down around the Parkgate shops where the pavement is narrow and hemmed in by safety fencing they give no quarter to pedestrians, shouting abuse at you if you don't move.These are not kids these are adults.
Never mind I thought, once I get to the pedestrian areas of the Town centre i'll be safe. Not now, some bozo has let them loose in the pedestrian heart and now they own it, they don't move or slow down for anyone.
If I had a bit extra cash I'd take a franchise on "Injury Lawyers for you" or similar and open an office in Darlington. I'm sure there will be a glut of claims from pedestrians hit by cyclists which I can comfortably make a living on. Just one thought though, when the inevitable cyclist/pedestrian accident happens in the town centre , who should I sue? The cyclist or the council?

[miketually]

Tricky, I'm very sorry to hear about your friend; I hope he makes a quick recovery and can make a claim against the driver's insurance company. This incident just goes to show why we need safe routes for cyclists over the ring road, and why cyclists need access to the pedestrianised area. (I've sent you a Private Message.)

jabdc5, I'm sorry that some cyclists are behaving irresponsibly on the pavements. Anyone cycling in this way should be punished, but it is possible to ride safely and responsibly on the pavement. I hope you don't set up a claims business based on cyclists injuring pedestrians as this has only happened once in Darlington in the last 13 years. Set up a car/bike claims business and you'll be raking it in...

[Tricky]

jabdc5

I am also sorry to hear about your experiences with cyclists. I regularly commute up and down Yarm Road and I have seen the sort of behaviour you are talking about. I also get abuse off them when I ride past them on the road, while they are charging up and down the paths.

Unfortunately these people are not what Mike and I call cyclists, they are just hooligans on bikes. I am also a car driver so are not biased in any way, but there is a minority of car drivers that drive in an appalling manner towards cyclists, their are bad apples on all sides and unfortunately they are the ones that get noticed.

Replying to some of the earlier posts, one thing I would like to ask. If cyclists paid road tax, insurance and had an mot do you think we would get any more respect on the road? Like some of the other cyclists I also have 3rd party insurance cover and pay for legal aid through British Cycling and I would gladly pay a proportionate road tax if I would get more respect on the roads.

[DaveH]

[quote]Replying to some of the earlier posts, one thing I would like to ask. If cyclists paid road tax, insurance and had an mot do you think we would get any more respect on the road? Like some of the other cyclists I also have 3rd party insurance cover and pay for legal aid through British Cycling and I would gladly pay a proportionate road tax if I would get more respect on the roads.[/quote]

no i dont think you would just like the rest of us legitimate road users.

but you should also not have the choice as youre on the road taking up space and liable to be the cause or the target of an accident.

if you use the road you should be correctly trained and insured and taxed, that should go for EVERYONE no exceptions.


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[miketually]

[quote="DaveH"]if you use the road you should be correctly trained and insured and taxed, that should go for EVERYONE no exceptions.[/quote]

It could be argued that the correct level of training, insurance and tax to operate a bike is exactly what is required at the moment. The fact is, bikes do not require this because there is no real need.

Requiring cyclists to be taxed, tested and insured would lead to a reduction in the number of cyclists. This would lead to increased congestion and poorer health levels, costing the economy money.

[DaveH]

[color=blue][quote]It could be argued that the correct level of training, insurance and tax to operate a bike is exactly what is required at the moment. The fact is, bikes do not require this because there is no real need.

Requiring cyclists to be taxed, tested and insured would lead to a reduction in the number of cyclists. This would lead to increased congestion and poorer health levels, costing the economy money.[/quote][/color]

that is what i am arguing im pleased you agree that it could only be beneficial.

no real need ? if this is the case then why do we all see cyclists bombing down the footpath assuming right of way and weaving in and out of traffic like untrained idiots. maybe i do mean hoodies on mountain bikes but if they are on a bike then they are a cyclist im afraid... no getting away from that.

that all depends on how much they are taxed if they were taxed in line with the current fashion of 'carbon footprint' then your going to get off pretty easily and the training can only help all road users.

as an incentive you could offer free secure parking for bikes in the town but only accessable with your 't&t' card or whatever..

if it did however lead to a reduction then surely the people who do not take to the road because they cant be bothered to do the training are precicelly the people we do not want on the roads ?

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[miketually]

The cyclists we all see "bombing down the footpath" wouldn't attend the training, wouldn't pay the tax and wouldn't take out the insurance. They would still ride on the footpath and it would be very difficult to enforce any tax or test.

It is currently illegal to ride irresponsibly on the pavement (ok, all pavement cycling is technically illegal, but Home Office advice is to allow responsible pavement cycling), so these people could be stopped anyway.

The fact remains that, regardless of how you and others percieve these cyclists to be riding, they do not cause injuries; [b]there has been only one reported injury caused by an accident between a cyclist and pedestrian in the whole town in the last thirteen years[/b] and this was on the road.

Most pavement cyclists I see are riding responsibly; such as the mum and her four kids on the way to school on West Auckland road this morning. Would you condemn these cyclists to the road? There are many serious injuries caused in accidents between cars and cyclists; just last Thursday a man had his colar bone broken on the Haughton road roundabout.

This town (and all towns) needs to encourage cycling (and walking and bus use) and discourage car use. To do otherwise is bad for the environment, bad for the economy and bad for the town.

[atomheartfather]

What many people forget is that Darlington has one of the lowet levels of cycling in a country which itself has the lowest level of cycling in Europe. Our blinkered view of "appropriate" and "inappropriate" behaviour by cyclists, car drivers, pedestrians, motor cyclists et al has been shaped by 30 years of backward underdevelopment when compared to much of Europe.

Now that cycling and walking are finally recognised as desirable, we are slowly waking up to the mess we have created - both on our roads and in our minds. It's just not good enough anymore to argue that we design traffic management that gives someone driving their kid 500 yards to school priority over a kid who cycles instead. But that is exactly what we have. Legally, that kid is meant to cycle on a dangerous road, where traffic flow is geared for the car driver, not the cyclist.

We all badly need to clear our heads of this old fashioned nonsense, and start to rebuild the town for the 21st century, with 21st century ideas of priority.

[Lynsey]

For what its worth - my opinion on cyclists.
I used to cycle before the roads were so busy but mainly on a weekend and on the cycle paths so not so much on the roads. However, when I did cycle on the roads I obeyed the rules of the road unlike many cyclists who seem to think that red lights do not apply to them. On many an occasion I have been driving in Darlington and have seen cyclists go through red lights without even slowing down, or run up onto the pavement at the lights and go through that way. I have also seen them weaving between static cars and squeezing past just to get to the front of the queue of traffic. If they want to be treat like other road users then they should act like other road useres!

[miketually]

I've seen many speeding cars, who like to nip through on amber or red. Who's more likely to kill or maim somebody?

Bikes are allowed to pass lines of stationary or slow moving traffic, it's called filtering and is perfectly legal (although not always safe).

Some stats I've lifted from another website:

"Between 2001 and 2005 in London alone, 534 pedestrians were killed by cars, 534! During that period, 1 person was killed by a cyclist, and that was not on a pavement or on a pedestrian crossing. One person in five years, yeah the law breaking bastards. Moving onto jumping red lights, a survey run by the TfL showed that 18% of cyclists in London ran red lights. I’d argue that this doesn’t reflect the national average in any way but have no data to back this up. This clearly is a problem, indeed, 2 people during the 2001-2005, were killed when they jumped the red lights on their bikes, definately a problem there. It’s almost as much of a problem as the 3 cyclists, 7 pedestrians and 7 other road users WHO WERE KILLED BY CARS JUMPING RED LIGHTS during the same period."

Are bikes the problem, or cars?

A recent piece of research showed that male cyclists were more likely to ignore red lights, and that they were much less likely to be killed by a car or a truck than female cyclists who are more likely to obey the lights...

[DaveH]

what your stats show there is what everyone knows which is its not the vehicle but the person behind the wheel or riding it.

ill back you up on the filtering thing though. its legal and i love to do it passing all the other stationary vehicles during rush hour on my motorcycle.


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[kathleenmboden]

I am appalled that so many cyclists don't know even basic hand signals. When travelling behind one I am at a loss as to their next action until they make it.I recently purchased a bike-wide tires no gears-I asked at the bike shop, and a cyclist, who was riding a2000 pound trail bike, what the hand signals were so I could ride the beast home. THEY DIDN"T KNOW!! The cyclist had the affrontery to say we really don't bother much with that.How True! Given that experience I have endevoured to find out more about this and must go to the highway code before I attempt to ride on the roads. But when I learn these rules will the motorists understand them? During the recent mega market, in the so called pedestrian heart, I met with two policemen on pedal bikes.I had to move pretty fast to dodge their actions as they wove in and out of pedestrians while calling cheery goodbye's to their mates.One would think they were given adequate training as part of their duties. As with so many other problems with the pedestrian heart it is the individual cyclist who causes the problem for the majority.I still think Bikes are wheeled vehicles and should be licenced as other vehicles are and riders should be tested.Trails are fine but they face the same perils as walkers, namely inconsiderate users, dog muck and mud.Cyclists who travel in tandem and not single file should be fined.